Unveiling Grace Podcast

Guest co-host Katie (Wilder) Warren joins the conversation for a special women’s podcast. Julie grew up LDS in Ogden, UT and married her high school sweetheart, who joined the LDS Church. They never married in the temple. Julie always wondered, “If this was God’s house, why would he keep anyone out of it?”

Pastor Mike and Rosa Abbate share salvation stories from 18 years of ministry to the FLDS in LeBaron, Mexico. Mike notes LeBaron is 60 miles from an LDS temple in Colonia Juarez where George Romney and later Mitt grew up. First of the salvation stories is Lila LeBaron, now with the Adam’s Road ministry. Find her story on Episodes 78 & 79.

By an act of God, Pastor Michael Abbate was placed in charge of the monumental 3-day FLDS LeBaron Family reunion in Lebaron, Mexico in 2006. Prep took a year. The mariachi band he’d hired cancelled at the last minute, so the Christian worship band he’d hired for the Sunday service played worship music all 3 days. On Sunday, Mike shared the gospel with 300 in Rosa’s fundamentalist father (Dayer LeBaron, Jr.)’s church

Rosa LeBaron Abbate’s grandfather was Alma Dayer LeBaron, Sr. who left Utah for Chihuahua, Mexico when polygamy was outlawed and polygamists were persecuted. LDS Prophet John Taylor had purchased 100,000 acres in 1885 so that 350 faithful polygamist families could live out their faith. They lived in Chihuahua until Pancho Villa kicked them out of Mexico in 1910 during the Mexican Revolution. After the Revolution, they returned.

Vince met Ashley online and 30 days later, they married in Gatlinburg. He was LDS; she went to a Baptist church. The day she chose to profess Christ publicly and get baptized, he got drunk. LDS and constantly struggling with the idea that he was not good enough, Vince had a moment of infidelity. His old pattern kicked in.

Having given his life to Jesus, Vince remained LDS, attending a singles ward in Virginia. He seemed to have a good experience at the LDS temple as he checked boxes preparing to serve a mission. The missionary training center in Provo, Utah, however, stressed him out. “But, where would I have gone to talk to somebody?”

For Vince, issues with the LDS church began at age 16 when his mom accused him of sleeping with a girlfriend; he wasn’t. He sincerely wanted to be trusted. His older sister had gotten emancipated from their LDS parents wanting freedom from all the rules. She introduced Vince to marijuana and he began doing drugs—eventually writing some bad checks.

Devil on one shoulder and an angel on the other, like Kronk from the Emperor’s New Groove. Should I leave him or mend this marriage? Now separated, Vince’s addictions interfered with their relationship and everyone had an opinion. As LDS, many men feel great pressure to do more, become better. Vince struggled with guilt.

God answers Ashley’s concerns—of all places—in the Celestial room of an LDS temple. At the time, her husband was all-in LDS. But as a Christian, she felt convicted: You know the truth.

In addition to the requirements of performance-based religion and not being able to sing the LDS hymn, Praise to the Man, Ashley, a born again Christian, encountered other things that bothered her about the LDS church after she joined. For her LDS baptism, she had chosen a beloved Christian hymn. That hymn had to be approved by her bishop and he denied her. A year after being active LDS, Ashley desired to earn the right to have a forever family. She and Vince now had 2 daughters ages five and one. She needed to make herself worthy to enter an LDS temple by passing two temple recommend interviews (bishop and stake president). The last question in that interview bothered her.

Ashley grew up in a home without faith but her parents got saved when she was in her 20s and now suggested she marry the guy she was living with—the marriage lasted 7 months. After the divorce, she met the nicest guy. Vince was inactive LDS which made no difference to her at the time. Although he’d served an LDS mission, he struggled on and off with alcohol. Ashley began to attend her parents’ Baptist church. One day she encountered the Holy Spirit and was all in with the Jesus of the Bible. She saw things with brand new eyes. Ashley got baptized; Vince did not come and when she got home, he was intoxicated. One day, she convinced him to attend a Bible class but the topic happened to be false religions and Mormonism was included. Vince was not interested in a faith that trashed his faith. Eventually they had a daughter and, as tends to happen, religion became important to both. 

Ashley grew up in a home without faith but her parents got saved when she was in her 20s. They now suggested she marry the guy she was living with—the marriage lasted 7 months. After the divorce, Ashley met the nicest guy. Vince was an inactive member of the LDS church, which made no difference to her at the time.

This week we invited Matt Wilder to put together some excerpts from a presentation he frequently performs at churches called Teachings of Jesus. Grab a drink, maybe your Bible, and settle in to commune with God through music and Scripture.

Matt called upon the name of the Lord and received His peace and the rest that passes understanding. At the time, he was a piano performance major entering his senior year at Brigham Young University, but anyone who disaffiliates with the LDS church cannot stay at BYU. Having been dramatically changed, he began sharing the gospel of grace to friends/family (his now wife Nicole), left BYU, and became a founding member of the Adam’s Road Ministry in Florida in 2006. Having unusual giftings in piano performance, music composition, and memorizing Scripture, in 2017, Matt says God laid on his heart to expand the reach of Adam’s Road to include the Adam’s Road Piano Ministry. In addition to traveling to give his testimony at churches with Adam’s Road, Matt memorizes Scripture, puts original music he composes behind the Scripture, and bears his testimony of Jesus to church audiences in his own unique gospel presentation. He describes the details of salvations from Idaho to Nevada to Indiana, Utah, and Arizona. God is using the Adam’s Road Piano presentation as well as the Adam’s Road Podcast—which he does weekly—to change hearts toward the gospel of grace.

Why is salvation by God’s grace so extraordinary a gift for one who has felt the burden of guilt within a rigid, works-based religious system? What is it like to be a Mormon missionary? Matt Wilder of Adam’s Road Piano discusses the weight of the LDS performance-based system as a Mormon missionary in Chapter 3 of the book Responding to the Mormon Missionary Message. When LDS, he felt constantly guilted. Had he sufficiently repented of his sins? Life as an LDS missionary was regimented—rules-based. Missionaries report numbers regularly to mission leaders. With an emphasis on goals and numbers, measured success led to rewards. Matt likens the efficiency of accountability similar to that of a business. For him, the weight of these continual expectations manifested themselves internally—emotionally and physically as he strove to prove himself worthy.

Is truth what we feel to be true? What do you do when what you know to be true clashes with what you are feeling is true?
Pastor and researcher Jon Benzinger is our guest again for a fast-paced, fact-filled discussion on the top 5 reasons we can trust the Bible to be our reliable guide for life and relationship with God and others. We also talk about the importance of feelings and we explore how performance-based religion often gets it wrong when it comes to our feelings and how we know truth. Lynn and Jon also talk candidly about how God used the Bible to personally change their lives and the hope and healing that is there for anyone who is seeking transformation.